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From: owner-traveller-digest@mpgn.com (Traveller-digest)
To: traveller-digest@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM
Subject: Traveller-digest V1996 #762
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Sender: owner-traveller-digest@mpgn.com


Traveller-digest      Monday, December 16 1996      Volume 1996 : Number 762



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: RCES LBD
Re: Vampire Fleets
Re: SSDS and Battle Rider
Re: Fleet Repair Ship
RE: An idea for presentation/future books etc...
RE: An idea for presentation/future books etc...
Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #761
Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #761
Re: [T96#757] Weird Place Names
Re: [T96#755] FT Review policy
Re: This whole "Starships Sucks" thread, and what's wrong with it
RE: An idea for presentation/future books etc...
Where's the setting?
Sunday Follies Update
Re: An idea for presentation/future books etc...
Re: Where's the setting?
Oh buttocks! 
Is T4 innovative? 
Re: Useful Criticism (long) (was Re: Starships)
Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #760
Re: Fleet Repair Ship
Re: An idea for presentation/future books etc...
Re: An idea for presentation/future books etc...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:13:01 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: RCES LBD

At 12:28 PM 12/16/96 -0600, you wrote:
>I was wondering what TL the Light Battle Dress was.  The stuff that has no
>mobility and initiative penalities, with AV 6.  It doesn't say what TL it is
>in the RCEG.

Tech 12.  It was simply Battle Dress done on the cheap; just enough power to
keep the user from having to carry the weight of the armor/goodies.  

>I also wanted to know if any of you that play CT, or MT had any ideas on why
>the laser rifles in those two games have penetration values, while in TNE
>the penetration on laser rifles is nil.  I don't have any of the CT or MT
>books so I can't say for sure that they do have pen values, but my GM does.
>We've wondered why there is this disparity.

It was, I think, an attempt to add a little more reality.  Lasers would need
a little time to burn through ceramic or metal plates, and hand-held weapons
just couldn't deliver enough energy to make burn through with one pulse.
They could burn through cloth/kevlar with ease, along with flexible metal
armors like chainmail.  I liked this rule.. made laser armed snipers real
dangerous in rear areas when people took their helmets off.

>Also, to you jump guru's out there is there any rules laid down as to how a
>micro-jump works??  I hear about or see them pop up on the list every once
>in a while, but there are no rules for them in MT:TNE.  Please fill me in.

A microjump is a jump that doesn't leave the local area.  Still takes all
the normal fuel, still lasts about seven days, but you pop out in the same
system.  While playing the Islands Campaign from TCS, I once microjumped my
fleet to the exact same place.  Imagine my opponent's surprise when the
fleet he had driven off comes right back with a week's worth of repair done..

>The fuel used by all the starships is liquid hydrogen.  But to my
>understanding it takes great pressure, or very cold temperatures to keep
>hydrogen liquid.  How is this done.  It always says in the rule books that
>it's just liquid hydrogen, but never details the container/tanks/or freezers
>that it would have to be kept in.  Would it be in pressurized tanks, like
>liquid nitrogen or liquid oxygen??

I imagine that the tanks are pressurized and refrigerated, but that would
take a trivial amount of power.  For TNE, you could add a .001Mw per ton of
fuel carried requirement on the power plant; and perhaps require and extra
5% over on volume and weight.

+----------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net  |
|     Professional Driver - Traveller Guru     |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/        |
|**********************************************|
| "Life's a journey, not a destination."       |
|                                   -Aerosmith |
+----------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:19:59 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Vampire Fleets

At 05:40 PM 12/16/96 +1100, you wrote:
>     Somebody asked about copies of Vampire Fleets. 
   
>     Napoleon's Military Bookshop, on Pitt St in Sydney, has a couple of 
>     copies left. 
>     
>     Before all you Yanks start booing and hissing, Napoleon's will take 
>     mail orders with credit card numbers.

Yeah?  Well maybe we'll send the USMC down to take 'em!  Howzabout that!  

(Sorry, watched "Patton" last night- still swaggering around the apartment)

 
+----------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net  |
|     Professional Driver - Traveller Guru     |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/        |
|**********************************************|
| "Life's a journey, not a destination."       |
|                                   -Aerosmith |
+----------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:24:39 -0700 (MST)
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: SSDS and Battle Rider

 
> One neat thing is that SSDS can be used to quickly build starships
> for _Battle Rider_.  Once ship design is complete, instead of making
> a USD, you can use the rules in the back of _Battle Rider_ to make
> _Battle Rider_ stats.  Am I the only person here who's noticed that
> the USD Conversion Chart is the same as the one in _Battle Rider_,
> but extended to *60*!?  Heck, this is cool just for BR fiends....

I made the table, so yeah, I noticed (I just followed the pattern to
increase it beyond 20). :-)
 
> In fact, you can almost directly convert between a USD and stats
> for _Battle Rider_.  The main stumbling block is converting the
> weapons batteries correctly.  The USD figures give intensity in
> the same figures as BR, with an assumed short range of 10 hexes.
> However, in SSDS multiple weapons can be organized into permanent 
> batteries that are considered *one weapon*, with a USD value which
> is the something like the sum of the USD values of the components.  
> In addition, the effect of overpowering gets added in somehow,
> not considered separately as in TNE.  If armor works the same way
> as TNE, this has obvious effects on combat; large ships and deep-
> site meson guns may no longer be as invulnerable to laser turret
> fire from permanent multiple-turret battery equipped ships.

It takes a lot to get the USD up for lasers.  The rules for adding
weapons together are available if you want them.  Bay weapons are
one per battery, for example, small lasers can be added together.
ROF modifies the USD as well since we thought the combat system was
going to look more like HG.

- -Merrick
> 
>   Steve Bonneville
>   <bonnevil@itlabs.umn.edu>
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:53:57 -0600 (CST)
From: "Peter  H. Brenton" <pete@cummings.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Fleet Repair Ship

On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Dave Strebe wrote:

> Submitted for your perusal and comments.
> 
> "Roger Young" Class Fleet Maintanence Ship
> 
[ship snipped]

Don't you think the name"Roger Young" should be reserved for a troop
transport with assault landing capabilities?  Drop tubes perhaps?
Carrying a Company with a captain named Rico maybe?

Just needling

Pete

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:30:20 -0800
From: "Peter J. Miller" <PeterMiller@youngmerlin.com>
Subject: RE: An idea for presentation/future books etc...

>As well, much has been said about how Traveller needs to "look" good on the 
>store shelf to attract new players. I wholeheartedly agree with this 
>sentement, and I really can't see a game in a 3-ring binder as anything 
>other than really, really cheap.

THe problem I see with a binder system is the same as when TSR did it's
monster compendium's in a binder format.  Many sheets are lost!  And, if the
pages ar emade laminated, plastic, reinforced or whatever, it drives the
cost right up. 

This is unfortunate, as I like the binder format, but one thing I see is it
must be made single sided so that updates cn be added a lot easier than if
it's double sided and thngs get out of order.

_______________________________Peter John Miller
"I'll sit around and stay a little longer...if they don't want me, I'll stay
at home and watch them" - Jays manager Cito Gaston on his future with the
team (12/12/96)
- ------------------------------------------------
Traveller, Prime Directive, AD&D, and the home of the Imperium Games FAQ!
       http://www.dragonfire.net/~pm/
Graphics Design and the _Lowest Prices on the Web_
       http://www.youngmerlin.com/	

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:30:32 -0800
From: "Peter J. Miller" <PeterMiller@youngmerlin.com>
Subject: RE: An idea for presentation/future books etc...

>As well, much has been said about how Traveller needs to "look" good on the 
>store shelf to attract new players. I wholeheartedly agree with this 
>sentement, and I really can't see a game in a 3-ring binder as anything 
>other than really, really cheap.

THe problem I see with a binder system is the same as when TSR did it's
monster compendium's in a binder format.  Many sheets are lost!  And, if the
pages ar emade laminated, plastic, reinforced or whatever, it drives the
cost right up. 

This is unfortunate, as I like the binder format, but one thing I see is it
must be made single sided so that updates cn be added a lot easier than if
it's double sided and thngs get out of order.

_______________________________Peter John Miller
"I'll sit around and stay a little longer...if they don't want me, I'll stay
at home and watch them" - Jays manager Cito Gaston on his future with the
team (12/12/96)
- ------------------------------------------------
Traveller, Prime Directive, AD&D, and the home of the Imperium Games FAQ!
       http://www.dragonfire.net/~pm/
Graphics Design and the _Lowest Prices on the Web_
       http://www.youngmerlin.com/	

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 16:24:34 -0500
From: Ross Coburn <ross@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #761

R. Darroch Elliott, who should now better, wrote:

>        I'm currently gearing up for a Milieu 0 campaign starting out of
>Sylea... and will have to make most of Sylea up.  Not a problem, but it
>just means I'll have to give out a more massive pregame handout than I
>usually do.  Oh well.

This is an evil joke; his USUAL campaign initial handouts read like War&Peace.

In fact, I strongly suspect that he posted it solely to get me going, so
I'll stop now. . . .

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 16:24:34 -0500
From: Ross Coburn <ross@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #761

R. Darroch Elliott, who should now better, wrote:

>        I'm currently gearing up for a Milieu 0 campaign starting out of
>Sylea... and will have to make most of Sylea up.  Not a problem, but it
>just means I'll have to give out a more massive pregame handout than I
>usually do.  Oh well.

This is an evil joke; his USUAL campaign initial handouts read like War&Peace.

In fact, I strongly suspect that he posted it solely to get me going, so
I'll stop now. . . .

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 16:26:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
Subject: Re: [T96#757] Weird Place Names

PAUL WILLIAMS <p.d.williams@lancaster.ac.uk>

T::>Ok, all the others are wierd, but Chipping Norton? Does this mean
 ::>something to North Americans that we Brits need to be told about, 'cos
 ::>it sounds pretty normal to me. For what it's worth, there's a Bell End
 ::>in Australia, but I don't know whether I'll get censored for that one...

 Not that it means anything specific to us, but even in areas
 that have a strong British influence (such as most of the
 states north and east of New York - a region we call New
 England), we don't have those kinds of names.  To us, those
 kinds of names are Just Not Done.  As a result, it sounds
 weird.

 Bell End isn't a problem for most Americans - it could easily
 be an exclusive neighborhood at the end of a peninsula or
 elongated island.

 On the other hand, names that we don't consider remarkable,
 such as those taken from tribal languages, would probably
 strike you as quite strange - for example:

 Mississippi
 Missouri
 Ohio
 Oklahoma
 Sioux City (pronounce "Soo City") (a city in South Dakota)
 Dakota (the name of two states, North and South)
 Connecticut
 Quogue (a town on Long Island)
 Amagansett (ditto)
 Manhattan (what most people think of when they think of New York)
 Chappaqua (a town north of New York City)

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
  OLXWin 1.00b  Eressea: It can't be *that* bad!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 16:26:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
Subject: Re: [T96#755] FT Review policy

Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com> writes...

T::>Quoth Kenneth Bearden:
 ::>> On 13 Dec 96 at 16:54, JEFF ZEITLIN wrote:
 ::>> > Freelance Traveller has a self-imposed responsibility to _support_
 ::>> > Traveller.  Because of this, Freelance Traveller can not in good
 ::>> > conscience print outright negative reviews of a product.
 ::>>
 ::>> Althought we agree on your reasons for doing this, you may want to
 ::>> re-think your position.  You are basically saying that Freelance
 ::>> Traveller is biased, and people won't trust your reviews in the
 ::>> future.

T::>I whole-heartedly disagree.  Many professional magazines in the RPG
 ::>industry have this policy: "Pyramid Picks," which John Kovalic has already
 ::>mentioned, only reviews products, in their words, that make them think
 ::>"Gee, we wish we'd done that!"  (T4 might be a borderline case here....)

 This is quite true, although I was not consciously considering
 this when I wrote the policy.  But see my discussion from a
 couple of days ago on the policy.

T::>The _reviews_ will be unbiased, and Jeff's already said that _constructive_
 ::>criticism is acceptable.  He just doesn't want to fill the site up with a
 ::>lot of bad press from old Traveller-grognards with more history to compare
 ::>products with than the prospective new Traveller player has.

 Not entirely correct - comparisons with older Traveller
 products, and commentary based on knowledge of such is
 acceptable - see the review of T4, for example.  What's not
 acceptable is the kind of vituperation that has been seen in
 quite a number of the reviews of Starships posted here, which
 have all focussed on the bad points, without answering certain
 basic questions, such as "Is it _useful_?  Not _ideal_, but
 _useful_?", and concentrating on the superficialities (like the
 non-Travelleresqueness of the artwork) without catching some of
 the glaring flaws (like staterooms that have less than 4 m^2 of
 floor space, according to the information given on the plans).
 That kind of review is outright negative, and worse, it's not
 useful to the reader.  It would be a disservice to print
 something like that.

 I'll admit to being a little more lenient on _positive_ reviews -
 but even there, I want them to have _substance_, not just "Gee,
 this is neat!".

T::>(Sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth here, Jeff!)

 Not at all - you've done a reasonably good job of interpreting
 my words without having access to my thoughts.  If you're off
 the mark, it's _my_ fault for not explaining myself clearly
 enough.

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
  OLXWin 1.00b  I live by only 2 laws: IDIC and Murphy.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 15:02:59 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.pharm.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: This whole "Starships Sucks" thread, and what's wrong with it

Hear hear!!! I was also banking on getting Milieu 0 for Christmas.  You're
absolutely right...new gamers don't want just rules, they want the world
too.
	Way back when, ohhh say 9 months ago, before T4 was officially
announced, and GDW was just expired...there was a great deal of debate on
this list over 'What would become of Traveller?' I posted (in response to
someone suggesting putting out rules and nothing but) that old fart gamers
like me, who made up our own universes when we had no other choice, could
appreciate the 'zen-like austerity' of the three black books; but that the
market today demands, before anything else, background...why else do those
damnable White Wolf Ham playing games do so well?

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 23:02:22 +0100
From: "NixxoN" <niklas.svensson@mailbox.swipnet.se>
Subject: RE: An idea for presentation/future books etc...

This is my first posting on this list, I'm a new-born Traveller fan =
(used to have MT) and I own T4, any way......
.
Someone wrote:    =20
     >How about making future T4 books (including reprintings of T4 and
     >Starships books) ring-punched, and sell ring binders complete with
     >gorgeous looking colour plates to those that *want* expensive =
looking=20
     >art. Those that don't, can use ordinary ring binders (this is =
market
     >segmentation or 2-part pricing for any economists out there).

There is a problem with this way of publishing material to overseas =
customers( like me).In the part of the world where I live we use ring =
binders with 4 rings and of A4 size. And then I have been playing games =
for some time and realy like boxed games and hardback books so this is =
just MHO

                      SEE YA'
                    -=3DNixxoN=3D-

*********************************************************************
* Primary e-mail         niklas.svensson@mailbox.swipnet.se              =

* home page              http://home1.swipnet.se/~w-18340/
* tel                            (int +46) 011 237 571                   =
                =20
* gsm                         0707 688 090                               =
                 =20
*********************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:00:35 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Where's the setting?

Hi,

There's been a lot of discussion about T4's lack of a setting.  I thought 
it might be helpful to address the issue here.

Milieu 0 had been completely written by the beginning of November.  Since 
then, it's been in editing, typsetting, layout, and so on.  Presumably, 
they're taking extra time to avoid the typos and other errors that IG's 
current two products have exhibited.

The Milieu 0 book is scheduled to be released next month, or so I'm told 
by Tim Brown, the project leader for Traveller RPG development.  So, if 
all goes well we'll have a setting before 2 months are up (hopefully 
sooner, but we know how these things go!).

In other news, I'm told that CSC and Aliens are supposed to ship to 
direct-order customers by early next week (keep your fingers crossed).  
At the same time, they should be shipped to distributors.  Expect to see 
them in stores in early January.


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 15:32:33 -0800
From: Rich Ostorero <stormhvn@inreach.com>
Subject: Sunday Follies Update

What with the contraversy over the posting of the Grand Adventure stuff to the List, I 
decided to _not_ post the detail-y stuff about the Sunday Follies game. I don't like 
hosing the site of a recent bonfire with Napalm, if you get my meaning. 

Instead of posting the detaily stuff, I'll post instead an item of more general 
interest: a status report on the game as T4 demo, and the results.

The game is now up to 14(!) players. The once-quiet Sundays at the Grapevine are a thing 
of the past. The only people upset with  are the Magic players -- once the rulers of the 
roost here -- who are now reluctantly relegated to the former gaming table In The Back 
Of The Store. Take _that_, WotC!

Folks are coming in and Buying Stuff, which pleases the FLGSO to no bloody end. The 
store has sold every copy of T4 it has been able to get, and some other stuff as well. 
Not every player has a copy, but I'm working on that ;)

The key now is to avoid becoming a victim of my own success. I'm pretty well maxed out 
as far as the number of players in the game . . . which means that it is no longer 
really a "demo." I'm also reaching the maximum as far as time I can devote to game prep 
each week . . . .

This week, I made use of _Starships_ stuff in the game. The Large Armed Freighter made a 
good Ardin Navy Q-Ship with the addition of boarding parties and damage-control 
crewmembers . . . .

- --Rich
stormhvn@inreach.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 15:09:23 -0800
From: Rich Ostorero <stormhvn@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: An idea for presentation/future books etc...

Peter J. Miller wrote:

> 
> THe problem I see with a binder system is the same as when TSR did it's
> monster compendium's in a binder format.  Many sheets are lost!  And, if the
> pages ar emade laminated, plastic, reinforced or whatever, it drives the
> cost right up.

A binder format is a REAL bad idea: witness the "Captain's Rulebook" for Star Fleet 
Battles ca. 1984. The thing looked LOUSY. IIRC, SJ Games once considered publishing 
GURPS books in that format . . . however, they got second thoughts and abandoned the 
idea.

> 
> This is unfortunate, as I like the binder format, but one thing I see is it
> must be made single sided so that updates cn be added a lot easier than if
> it's double sided and thngs get out of order.


Major annoyance: "This Rulebook Page You Paid For Is Intentionally Blank" ;(

- --Rich
stormhvn@inreach.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 15:44:38 -0800
From: Rich Ostorero <stormhvn@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: Where's the setting?

Joseph E. Walsh wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> There's been a lot of discussion about T4's lack of a setting.  I thought
> it might be helpful to address the issue here.
> 
> Milieu 0 had been completely written by the beginning of November.  Since
> then, it's been in editing, typsetting, layout, and so on.  Presumably,
> they're taking extra time to avoid the typos and other errors that IG's
> current two products have exhibited.

_Starships_ showed me that IG does learn from its previous efforts, so I'm happy to see 
this. I'm willing to wait if the time spent waiting produces a superior product. I 
expect M0 to reflect these learning experiences. 

> 
> The Milieu 0 book is scheduled to be released next month, or so I'm told
> by Tim Brown, the project leader for Traveller RPG development.  So, if
> all goes well we'll have a setting before 2 months are up (hopefully
> sooner, but we know how these things go!).

Even though I'm running a very nonstandard game, I expect to make some use of M0. I'll 
also buy it to avoid being clueless in any TML discussion about it. ;)
> 
> In other news, I'm told that CSC and Aliens are supposed to ship to
> direct-order customers by early next week (keep your fingers crossed).
> At the same time, they should be shipped to distributors.  Expect to see
> them in stores in early January.

How about JTAS???

- --Rich
stormhvn@inreach.com

------------------------------

Date: 17 Dec 96 10:22:11 +1100
From: Michael.Barry@FINANCE.ausgovfinance.telememo.au
Subject: Oh buttocks! 

     ...the day I called for designs for starship modules, a copy of Phil 
     McGregor's *Dark Star #2* arrived in the post. 
     
     Guess what? A whole scad of modules (civilian and military), a modular 
     scout/courier, and a sample modular fitout for the s/c (love the 
     motorcar, Phil!). 
     
     Anyway, it's worth getting your hands on. And I'm still interested in 
     seeing other modular designs. 

------------------------------

Date: 17 Dec 96 10:33:16 +1100
From: Michael.Barry@FINANCE.ausgovfinance.telememo.au
Subject: Is T4 innovative? 

     My bloody word it is. T4 has resurrected Traveller from the dead. 
     
     Evidence: volume of traffic on this mailing list. 
     Evidence: innovations that list members have come up with using the T4 
     background. 
     Evidence: despite its technical flaws, I like T4 even *better* than 
     the previous three incarnations. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:16:41 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: Re: Useful Criticism (long) (was Re: Starships)

Ken, this probably ought to go to private email, lest the TML start
stinking of overripe bruised horseflesh.  :-)

Quoth Kenneth Bearden:
> Look.  What I tried to say is simple.  I don't know why you find it 
> so hard to understand.  

I do understand.  I disagree with your premise: what you tried to say was
_too_ "simple."
 
> These are the pics that I think are Travelleresque, and these are the 
> pics I think are not Travelleresque.  It is nothing more complicated
> than that....  ...I wanted to give examples of what I like and don't
> like.  I did that.

Ken, you claim to be a writer -- and I've enjoyed some of the "backstories"
you've posted to TML.  So you must know that writing, that communication,
is founded on details.  I agree that it's important to distinguish between
"Travelleresque" ships and those not so -- but a bare collection of "Yes"
and "No" votes won't do that, for IG or anybody, because it doesn't say
_WHY_.  I likewise feel that this is "simple," and am frustrated by our
apparent lack of connection.

With you in high hopes for Traveller, 4 or otherwise,

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:32:39 -0500
From: 34zbtxq@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Susan M. Shock)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #760

>Anyone who's got a copy of The Long Way Home care to comment about the
>deckplans in the back of that? How about any members who saw the full-colour
>"Eagle" liner deckplans we used for the Traveller tournament at Euro GEN CON
>this year? These plans include internal pictorial detail of all rooms, plus
>The Long Way Home included a 'walk through' description by the ship's
>engineer. I am proud to say that in TLWH we very much tried to emulate the
>quality of previous DGP products.

I greatly enjoyed the deck plans for the LINTULA SUNRISE (although for every
time I say that name, I think of the Eagles for some reason...). They were
just as good if not better than anything produced by GDW and DGP. That ships
is JUST PERFECT for my campaign!

Oh and Andy...everytime I try to send you e-mail, it gets sent back as
undeliverable. is there another e-mail address I can contact you at?
I'd like to tell you about the TLWH game I'm running over IRC :)

(Sorry folks-it's full)
                                Allen

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:03:23 -0800
From: Dave Strebe <strebe@intergate.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Fleet Repair Ship

Peter H. Brenton wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Dave Strebe wrote:
> 
> > Submitted for your perusal and comments.
> >
> > "Roger Young" Class Fleet Maintanence Ship
> >
> [ship snipped]
> 
> Don't you think the name"Roger Young" should be reserved for a troop
> transport with assault landing capabilities?  Drop tubes perhaps?
> Carrying a Company with a captain named Rico maybe?
> 
> Just needling
> 
> Pete
Ya your probably right. Now where did I put that worksheet?
Hmm.. Yes enough room in the cargo bay to convert it 
sounds of eraser erasing and mumbling in the background..

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 20:05:01 -0500
From: "Christopher Weuve" <chrisweuve@usa.net>
Subject: Re: An idea for presentation/future books etc...

Someone said:
>How about making future T4 books (including reprintings of T4 and 
>Starships books) ring-punched, and sell ring binders complete with 
>gorgeous looking colour plates to those that * want* expensive looking 
>art. Those that don't, can use ordinary ring binders (this is 
>market segmentation or 2-part pricing for any economists out there). 

I once asked a friend who used to work for Task Force about putting stuff in 
three-ring binders. He said that the extra cost involved in making the sheets 
heavier/reinforced/laminated at best means that it costs the same as if it 
were bound.

Of course, it sounds like the proposal here is for the binder and art to be 
sold separately from the looseleaf contents, so it may end up being cheaper.  
Given the rise in paper prices since I asked about this, though, I somehow 
doubt it (although I like the idea).

K.C. Komosky responded:
> The problem is, how many additional sales would IG realize from the 
> cheap versions, and would these additional sales more than make up for 
> the production costs of producing two different versions. 

It isn't really a case of two versions, because the art would simply be 
included as part of the binder rather than the looseleaf.  It's not two 
versions of the same product, rather it's two products.

- --Chris Weuve

chrisweuve@usa.net (home)
caw@intercon.com   (work/daytime)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Give me the strength to change the things I can, the grace to accept
the things I cannot, and a great big bag of money."  [author unknown]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:19:56 -0800
From: "Peter J. Miller" <PeterMiller@youngmerlin.com>
Subject: Re: An idea for presentation/future books etc...

>It isn't really a case of two versions, because the art would simply be 
>included as part of the binder rather than the looseleaf.  It's not two 
>versions of the same product, rather it's two products.

Having the art on seperate loose-leaf pages would be really helpful as well,
as you could organize it where *you* wanted it, instead of where IG wants it
(which doesn't seem t agree with the majority of Traveller fans - at least
on this list).  For example, you could take it out of the rules alltogether
and shove it at the back of the binder.

I'd be interested in hearing from someone at IG\AP&D about how much the
binder format, with single-sided, reinforced (ie. built to last) pages would
cost in comparison to a normal, binded softcover book of similar size.

Thanks

_______________________________Peter John Miller
"I'll sit around and stay a little longer...if they don't want me, I'll stay
at home and watch them" - Jays manager Cito Gaston on his future with the
team (12/12/96)
- ------------------------------------------------
Traveller, Prime Directive, AD&D, and the home of the Imperium Games FAQ!
       http://www.dragonfire.net/~pm/
Graphics Design and the _Lowest Prices on the Web_
       http://www.youngmerlin.com/	

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1996 #762
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